[Dprglist] uber death

Tue Mar 20 18:35:20 PDT 2018

"from the shadows" is the human language used to describe the video. If 
there were an static obstacle, such as a tree or a garbage can, between 
the person and the car there would be a LIDAR shadow from the car's 
perspective. It was 10pm and they suggested the nearest light was 100 
yards away from street lamp level. The shadows to humans would be coming 
from near the same angle as from the car, making it a shadow to both the 
human observer watching the video and to the LIDAR / sensors.

Newspapers aren't going to go into that level of detail.

In cases like this, where even a human driver likely wouldn't be found 
to be at fault, there would be no case. A lawsuit would likely have to 
prove gross negligence of the car company and/or subcontractors to move 
litigation forward. Accidents and death might suck but they happen. Even 
in unpredictable situations, the AI likely has done more millions more 
scenario calculations about what to do to minimize loss of life than any 
human driver is capable of.

Expect to see a lot more "blame the victim" as these cases inevitably 
happen. The odds are forever not in our favor.

------ Original Message ------
From: "Steve Edwards" <steve.edwards214 at gmail.com>
To: "David Anderson" <davida at smu.edu>
Cc: dprglist at lists.dprg.org
Sent: 3/20/2018 8:14:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Dprglist] uber death

>Yeah this is new territory in litigation.  Likely the car company or 
>the AI tech company(if different).  But they will find a way to 
>mitigate their liability  risk through 3rd party insurance.
>
>Re: "based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway".  
>It's interesting they play this to a humans perspective that it's hard 
>to see something jumping out of the shadows.  AFAIK Lider and other 
>advance sensors should work well in dark conditions.   Direct sunlight 
>would probably be a bigger hindrance to the AI.
>
>
>On Mar 20, 2018 6:08 PM, "David Anderson" <davida at smu.edu> wrote:
>>I wonder who is legally liable for such accidents?   The company?   
>>The passengers?   It would be clear in a courtroom if it had been a 
>>normal human driver, who could then defend himself as Dan outlined 
>>below.   But who would be on trial in this case?
>>
>>-dpa
>>
>>
>>
>>On 03/20/2018 01:16 PM, Dan Miner wrote:
>>>From this article:  
>>>http://fortune.com/2018/03/19/uber-self-driving-car-crash/ 
>>><http://fortune.com/2018/03/19/uber-self-driving-car-crash/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>“Chief of Police Sylvia Moir told the San Francisco Chronicle 
>>><https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Exclusive-Tempe-police-chief-says-early-probe-12765481.php?utm_campaign=twitter-premium&utm_source=CMS%20Sharing%20Button&utm_medium=social> 
>>>on Monday that video footage taken from cameras equipped to the 
>>>autonomous Volvo SUV potentially shift the blame to the victim 
>>>herself, 49-year-old Elaine Herzberg, rather than the vehicle.
>>>
>>>“It’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision 
>>>in any kind of mode [autonomous or human-driven] based on how she 
>>>came from the shadows right into the roadway,” Moir told the paper, 
>>>adding that the incident occurred roughly 100 yards from a crosswalk. 
>>>“It is dangerous to cross roadways in the evening hour when 
>>>well-illuminated managed crosswalks are available,” she said.”
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>So “blaming the victim” but it seems like this person probably would 
>>>have been killed even without the autonomous driving aspect.
>>>
>>>-          Dan Miner
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>From: DPRGlist [mailto:dprglist-bounces at lists.dprg.org 
>>><mailto:dprglist-bounces at lists.dprg.org>] On Behalf Of Ezra 
>>>Christensen
>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2018 11:36 AM
>>>To: dprglist
>>>Subject: Re: [Dprglist] uber death
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I'll wait to see the details before drawing conclusions. It happened 
>>>at 10pm in clear, dry conditions and there was no speed adjustment by 
>>>the car and no operator disengagement? Some part of the story is 
>>>missing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>It's unrealistic to assume autonomous cars will have zero fatalities. 
>>>The goal has always been to be significantly safer than human 
>>>operators.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------ Original Message ------
>>>
>>>From: "Steve Edwards" <steve.edwards214 at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>To: davida at smu.edu; "dprglist" <dprglist at dprg.org>
>>>
>>>Sent: 3/19/2018 6:22:23 PM
>>>
>>>Subject: Re: [Dprglist] uber death
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Yea with an operator in the car no less.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-------- Original message --------
>>>>
>>>>From: David Anderson <davida at smu.edu>
>>>>
>>>>Date: 3/19/18 1:28 PM (GMT-06:00)
>>>>
>>>>To: dprglist <dprglist at dprg.org>
>>>>
>>>>Subject: [Dprglist] uber death
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Oh brave new world where such things are possible!"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>><https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/19/technology/uber-driverless-fatality.html 
>>>><https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/19/technology/uber-driverless-fatality.html>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-D
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>DPRGlist mailing list
>>>>DPRGlist at lists.dprg.org
>>>>http://lists.dprg.org/listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org 
>>>><http://lists.dprg.org/listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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