<html><head><style><![CDATA[#x9374b4c620d44a0ebd267c7e81500e87{
font-family:Tahoma;
font-size:12pt;
}#xca861f1142534e19a3cf5d31ec5ed123{
font-family:Tahoma;
font-size:12pt;
}]]></style><style id="css_styles" type="text/css"><!--blockquote.cite { margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; padding-left: 10px; padding-right:0px; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc }
blockquote.cite2 {margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; padding-left: 10px; padding-right:0px; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; margin-top: 3px; padding-top: 0px; }
a img { border: 0px; }
li[style='text-align: center;'], li[style='text-align: right;'] { list-style-position: inside;}
body { font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt; }--></style></head><body><div>"from the shadows" is the human language used to describe the video. If there were an static obstacle, such as a tree or a garbage can, between the person and the car there would be a LIDAR shadow from the car's perspective. It was 10pm and they suggested the nearest light was 100 yards away from street lamp level. The shadows to humans would be coming from near the same angle as from the car, making it a shadow to both the human observer watching the video and to the LIDAR / sensors.</div><div><br /></div><div>Newspapers aren't going to go into that level of detail.</div><div><br /></div><div></div><div>In cases like this, where even a human driver likely wouldn't be found to be at fault, there would be no case. A lawsuit would likely have to prove gross negligence of the car company and/or subcontractors to move litigation forward. Accidents and death might suck but they happen. Even in unpredictable situations, the AI likely has done more millions more scenario calculations about what to do to minimize loss of life than any human driver is capable of.<br /><br />Expect to see a lot more "blame the victim" as these cases inevitably happen. The odds are forever not in our favor.</div><div><br /></div>
<div><br /></div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From: "Steve Edwards" <<a href="mailto:steve.edwards214@gmail.com">steve.edwards214@gmail.com</a>></div>
<div>To: "David Anderson" <<a href="mailto:davida@smu.edu">davida@smu.edu</a>></div>
<div>Cc: <a href="mailto:dprglist@lists.dprg.org">dprglist@lists.dprg.org</a></div>
<div>Sent: 3/20/2018 8:14:26 PM</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [Dprglist] uber death</div><div><br /></div>
<div id="xd0ed4551f99d4eb"><blockquote cite="CAOfZioMm-Eyv-gd0JdkmSDSBFC1-DVmqixcvGcmxW-7Wvs-75Q@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" class="cite2">
<div dir="auto"><div>Yeah this is new territory in litigation. Likely the car company or the AI tech company(if different). But they will find a way to mitigate their liability risk through 3rd party insurance.</div><div dir="auto"><br /></div><div dir="auto">Re: "<span style="color:rgb(128,0,128);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway</span>". It's interesting they play this to a humans perspective that it's hard to see something jumping out of the shadows. AFAIK Lider and other advance sensors should work well in dark conditions. Direct sunlight would probably be a bigger hindrance to the AI.</div><div dir="auto"><br /></div><div dir="auto"><br /><div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote">On Mar 20, 2018 6:08 PM, "David Anderson" <<a href="mailto:davida@smu.edu">davida@smu.edu</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution" /><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="m_4413983235632769284moz-cite-prefix">I wonder who is legally liable for such
accidents? The company? The passengers? It would be clear in
a courtroom if it had been a normal human driver, who could then
defend himself as Dan outlined below. But who would be on trial
in this case?<br />
<br />
-dpa<div class="elided-text"><br />
<br />
<br />
On 03/20/2018 01:16 PM, Dan Miner wrote:<br />
</div></div><div class="elided-text">
<blockquote type="cite" class="cite">
<div class="m_4413983235632769284WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">From
this article: <a href="http://fortune.com/2018/03/19/uber-self-driving-car-crash/">http://fortune.com/2018/03/19/<wbr>uber-self-driving-car-crash/</wbr></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">“</span>Chief
of Police Sylvia Moir <a href="https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Exclusive-Tempe-police-chief-says-early-probe-12765481.php?utm_campaign=twitter-premium&utm_source=CMS%20Sharing%20Button&utm_medium=social">told the San Francisco <em>Chronicle</em></a>
on Monday that video footage taken from cameras equipped to
the autonomous Volvo SUV potentially shift the blame to the
victim herself, 49-year-old Elaine Herzberg, rather than the
vehicle.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>“It’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this
collision in any kind of mode [autonomous or human-driven]
based on how she came from the shadows right into the
roadway,” Moir told the paper, adding that the incident
occurred roughly 100 yards from a crosswalk. “It is dangerous
to cross roadways in the evening hour when well-illuminated
managed crosswalks are available,” she said.<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">”<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">So
“blaming the victim” but it seems like this person probably
would have been killed even without the autonomous driving
aspect.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:2.25in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><span>-<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dan
Miner</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
DPRGlist [<a class="m_4413983235632769284moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:dprglist-bounces@lists.dprg.org">mailto:dprglist-bounces@<wbr>lists.dprg.org</wbr></a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Ezra Christensen<br />
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 20, 2018 11:36 AM<br />
<b>To:</b> dprglist<br />
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Dprglist] uber death<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">I'll
wait to see the details before drawing conclusions. It
happened at 10pm in clear, dry conditions and there was
no speed adjustment by the car and no operator
disengagement? Some part of the story is missing.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">It's
unrealistic to assume autonomous cars will have zero
fatalities. The goal has always been to be significantly
safer than human operators.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">------
Original Message ------<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:
"Steve Edwards" <<a href="mailto:steve.edwards214@gmail.com">steve.edwards214@gmail.com</a>><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">To:
<a href="mailto:davida@smu.edu">davida@smu.edu</a>;
"dprglist" <<a href="mailto:dprglist@dprg.org">dprglist@dprg.org</a>><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Sent:
3/19/2018 6:22:23 PM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Subject:
Re: [Dprglist] uber death<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_4413983235632769284x955545fc4fb542d">
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 8.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:2.25pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Yea
with an operator in the car no less. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_4413983235632769284composer_signature">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#575757">Sent
via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE
smartphone<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">--------
Original message --------<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:
David Anderson <<a href="mailto:davida@smu.edu">davida@smu.edu</a>>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">Date:
3/19/18 1:28 PM (GMT-06:00) <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">To:
dprglist <<a href="mailto:dprglist@dprg.org">dprglist@dprg.org</a>>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">Subject:
[Dprglist] uber death <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">"Oh
brave new world where such things are possible!"<br />
<br />
<br />
<<a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/19/technology/uber-driverless-fatality.html">https://www.nytimes.com/2018/<wbr>03/19/technology/uber-<wbr>driverless-fatality.html</wbr></wbr></a>><br />
<br />
<br />
-D<br />
<br />
<br />
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br />
DPRGlist mailing list<br />
<a href="mailto:DPRGlist@lists.dprg.org">DPRGlist@lists.dprg.org</a><br />
<a href="http://lists.dprg.org/listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org">http://lists.dprg.org/<wbr>listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org</wbr></a><u></u><u></u></wbr></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br />
<fieldset class="m_4413983235632769284mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br />
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
DPRGlist mailing list
<a class="m_4413983235632769284moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:DPRGlist@lists.dprg.org">DPRGlist@lists.dprg.org</a>
<a class="m_4413983235632769284moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.dprg.org/listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org">http://lists.dprg.org/<wbr>listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org</wbr></a>
</wbr></pre>
</blockquote>
<br />
</div></div>
<br />______________________________<wbr>_________________<br />
DPRGlist mailing list<br />
<a href="mailto:DPRGlist@lists.dprg.org">DPRGlist@lists.dprg.org</a><br />
<a href="http://lists.dprg.org/listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org" rel="noreferrer">http://lists.dprg.org/<wbr>listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org</wbr></a><br />
<br /></wbr></blockquote></div><br /></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>
</body></html>