[Dprglist] uber death

Wed Mar 21 18:25:43 PDT 2018

 Here is a link to the video from the incident: 
Dashcam video of the self-driving car that killed a woman in Tempe, Arizona

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Dashcam video of the self-driving car that killed a woman in Tempe, Arizona

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Thanks,
Alyssa
    On Tuesday, March 20, 2018, 8:35:29 PM CDT, Ezra Christensen <ezracc at gmail.com> wrote:  

 "from the shadows" is the human language used to describe the video. If there were an static obstacle, such as a tree or a garbage can, between the person and the car there would be a LIDAR shadow from the car's perspective. It was 10pm and they suggested the nearest light was 100 yards away from street lamp level. The shadows to humans would be coming from near the same angle as from the car, making it a shadow to both the human observer watching the video and to the LIDAR / sensors.
Newspapers aren't going to go into that level of detail.
In cases like this, where even a human driver likely wouldn't be found to be at fault, there would be no case. A lawsuit would likely have to prove gross negligence of the car company and/or subcontractors to move litigation forward. Accidents and death might suck but they happen. Even in unpredictable situations, the AI likely has done more millions more scenario calculations about what to do to minimize loss of life than any human driver is capable of.

Expect to see a lot more "blame the victim" as these cases inevitably happen. The odds are forever not in our favor.

------ Original Message ------From: "Steve Edwards" <steve.edwards214 at gmail.com>To: "David Anderson" <davida at smu.edu>Cc: dprglist at lists.dprg.orgSent: 3/20/2018 8:14:26 PMSubject: Re: [Dprglist] uber death

Yeah this is new territory in litigation.  Likely the car company or the AI tech company(if different).  But they will find a way to mitigate their liability  risk through 3rd party insurance.
Re: "based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway".  It's interesting they play this to a humans perspective that it's hard to see something jumping out of the shadows.  AFAIK Lider and other advance sensors should work well in dark conditions.   Direct sunlight would probably be a bigger hindrance to the AI.

On Mar 20, 2018 6:08 PM, "David Anderson" <davida at smu.edu> wrote:

  I wonder who is legally liable for such accidents?   The company?   The passengers?   It would be clear in a courtroom if it had been a normal human driver, who could then defend himself as Dan outlined below.   But who would be on trial in this case?

 -dpa

 On 03/20/2018 01:16 PM, Dan Miner wrote:

>From this article:  http://fortune.com/2018/03/19/ uber-self-driving-car-crash/

“Chief of Police Sylvia Moir told the San Francisco Chronicle on Monday that video footage taken from cameras equipped to the autonomous Volvo SUV potentially shift the blame to the victim herself, 49-year-old Elaine Herzberg, rather than the vehicle.

“It’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode [autonomous or human-driven] based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway,” Moir told the paper, adding that the incident occurred roughly 100 yards from a crosswalk. “It is dangerous to cross roadways in the evening hour when well-illuminated managed crosswalks are available,” she said.”

So “blaming the victim” but it seems like this person probably would have been killed even without the autonomous driving aspect.

-          Dan Miner

From: DPRGlist [mailto:dprglist-bounces@ lists.dprg.org] On Behalf Of Ezra Christensen
 Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2018 11:36 AM
 To: dprglist
 Subject: Re: [Dprglist] uber death

I'll wait to see the details before drawing conclusions. It happened at 10pm in clear, dry conditions and there was no speed adjustment by the car and no operator disengagement? Some part of the story is missing.

It's unrealistic to assume autonomous cars will have zero fatalities. The goal has always been to be significantly safer than human operators.

------ Original Message ------

From: "Steve Edwards" <steve.edwards214 at gmail.com>

To: davida at smu.edu; "dprglist" <dprglist at dprg.org>

Sent: 3/19/2018 6:22:23 PM

Subject: Re: [Dprglist] uber death

Yea with an operator in the car no less. 

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------

From: David Anderson <davida at smu.edu> 

Date: 3/19/18 1:28 PM (GMT-06:00) 

To: dprglist <dprglist at dprg.org> 

Subject: [Dprglist] uber death 

"Oh brave new world where such things are possible!"

 <https://www.nytimes.com/2018/ 03/19/technology/uber- driverless-fatality.html>

 -D

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