[Dprglist] Fwd: LF intersection angle rule
Dan Miner
miner at zmail0.centtech.com
Wed Dec 13 11:23:39 PST 2017
Ha – When I went to watch the video below, an ad for a Storm Trooper robot
popped up:
https://store.ubtrobot.com/
Looks like it will cost $300.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/ubtech-first-order-stormtrooper-robot/6043503.p
- Dan
From: DPRGlist [mailto:dprglist-bounces at lists.dprg.org] On Behalf Of David
Anderson
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 11:52 AM
To: Doug Paradis
Cc: DPRG
Subject: Re: [Dprglist] Fwd: LF intersection angle rule
I did see Ron's robot demo, and interesting contrast between his approach
and Carl's, though Carl's is admittedly a simulation at this point.
Carl says that this year he is going to "get physical" so I was about to
post a link to Olivia Newton-John's "Let's Get Physical" as a theme song.
But then I went back and read the lyrics, and all the thinly and
not-so-thinly veiled innuendo from 1980's disco seem oddly discordant in
today's cultural environment ("I've been patient, I've been good. Trying to
keep my hands on the table").
So instead I offer the following, in keeping with the line-following theme
and the observation that all robot contests eventually devolve into races.
Even if the requirements are, say, that only line-following WALKING robots
are allowed:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XiRxNkZleY>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XiRxNkZleY>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XiRxNkZleY
cheers!
dpa
On 12/10/2017 11:32 AM, Doug Paradis wrote:
David,
From watching actual robots run the stain elements, I know that it
very possible for the robot to follow the outside edge of the stain and
recover the line on the opposite side (my robot did this for one). Following
this path the robot would be considered not following the line. Again after
watching multiple robots navigate the S curves, it is easy to see if the
robot is following the line (I.e., swaying with the S curve) versus just
cutting across the center line (i.e., not following the line). I agree that
bigger robots, those with wheel bases larger than the maximum radius of
curve used in the course (i.e., 6 inches), might not be as responsive as the
smaller robots. However, I still believe that you can tell when they are not
following the line.
BTW, did you see Ron's robot demo on Saturday? His robot was doing
pretty well. I think the course he was running had a S curve which he
handled without issue. The practice course didn't have any stains, if I
recall right.
Regards,
Doug P,
On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 10:49 AM, David Anderson <davida at smu.edu> wrote:
Thanks Doug,
I'm not sure I follow your examples (pun intended!).
For the segmented S curves, the difference between following the arc and
following straight line approximations of that arc are pretty small, and
likely to be indistinguishable from Ron's robot's path, for example.
Similarly, each of the stains on the published "challenge" course is on a
straight line segment between the entry point and exit point, so the paths
would be identical in both cases.
For a robot with a base the size of the tiles, I'm not sure there would be
any difference at all, unless the rules require that the "exact center" of
the robot must remain on the line, in which case I don't see how either
Carl's approach or Ron's would qualify.
This is just an intellectual exercise, I'm not planning on fielding such a
'bot.
cheers!
dpa
On 12/10/2017 10:06 AM, Doug Paradis wrote:
David,
Going from entry point to exit point is not considered enough. You
have to follow the line. For example, the segmented S curves, the robot
needs to follow the curve and make an S type movement. Another example is
the stain elements, the robot needs to follow the line across the stain not
follow the outside edge of the stain.
Regards,
Doug P.
On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 1:11 AM, David Anderson <davida at smu.edu> wrote:
Great meeting today.
Doug, I have a question based on Ron and Carl's presentations, perhaps it
has already been answered, to wit:
As I understand, the line following course consists of an assembly of square
tiles, each of which has an entry and exit point.
Is it sufficient for the robot to just identify the entry and exit points,
and drive directly from one to the other?
That is, it would not follow the line per se, though with sufficiently large
robot the differences would probably be pretty negligible, but it would
follow the course.
thanks,
dpa
On 12/09/2017 08:18 AM, Doug Paradis wrote:
John,
Currently, the intersecting lines are always straight and all
intersections are 90 degrees. Curves lines at an intersection would be a
possible addition to further challenge courses (interesting idea). The link
to the course layout is at
https://www.dprg.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/DPRG-Roborama-2011b-Challenge-Level-LF-Course.pdf
If you have any additional questions, let me know. I would love to see your
work on the tests that you are developing.
Regards,
Doug P.
On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 12:36 AM, John Swindle <swindle at compuserve.com>
wrote:
Doug,
I'd say the crossing in your drawing was about either 30 degrees or 150
degrees, and since it could come in on either side, I'd have to look for
both. I am not asking that the rules state which side the angle is measured
from. My issue is that I am developing a two-step test that covers all the
conditions in the Challenge, but in the steps I need to include something
that rejects the intersections. I am OK with rejecting any line that is 70
degrees to 110 degrees on either side. If the intersecting line is straight,
the test is a bit more robust. If each side is 70 to 110 degrees (a bent
intersecting line), my two-step test might fail.
Doing it "that's just wrong" way,
John Swindle
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Paradis <paradug at gmail.com>
To: John Swindle <swindle at compuserve.com>
Cc: DPRG <dprglist at lists.dprg.org>
Sent: Fri, Dec 8, 2017 11:52 pm
Subject: Re: LF intersection angle rule
John,
In the challenge course, all the intersections are 90 degrees. The rule
was written to allow crossing variations in the future. I'm thinking that
70-90 degrees would represent the smallest angle of the intersection. I not
sure that is right, just the way I would interpret the angle.
if you saw an intersection that was like this:
| /
| /
/
/ |
/ |
/ |
What angle would you say the intersection was?
Regards,
Doug P.
On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 9:03 PM, John Swindle <swindle at compuserve.com> wrote:
Doug,
The Line Following Challenge rules say "Intersections may cross with angles
of 70 - 90 degrees." Doesn't that really mean 70 to 110 degrees? Is the
intersecting line straight, or can it bend at the intersection?
Thanks,
John Swindle
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