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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ha – When I went to watch the video below, an ad for a Storm Trooper robot popped up:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <a href="https://store.ubtrobot.com/">https://store.ubtrobot.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Looks like it will cost $300. <a href="https://www.bestbuy.com/site/ubtech-first-order-stormtrooper-robot/6043503.p">https://www.bestbuy.com/site/ubtech-first-order-stormtrooper-robot/6043503.p</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> DPRGlist [mailto:dprglist-bounces@lists.dprg.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Anderson<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 10, 2017 11:52 AM<br><b>To:</b> Doug Paradis<br><b>Cc:</b> DPRG<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Dprglist] Fwd: LF intersection angle rule<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I did see Ron's robot demo, and interesting contrast between his approach and Carl's, though Carl's is admittedly a simulation at this point. <br><br>Carl says that this year he is going to "get physical" so I was about to post a link to Olivia Newton-John's "Let's Get Physical" as a theme song. But then I went back and read the lyrics, and all the thinly and not-so-thinly veiled innuendo from 1980's disco seem oddly discordant in today's cultural environment ("I've been patient, I've been good. Trying to keep my hands on the table"). <br><br>So instead I offer the following, in keeping with the line-following theme and the observation that all robot contests eventually devolve into races. Even if the requirements are, say, that only line-following WALKING robots are allowed:<br><br><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XiRxNkZleY"><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XiRxNkZleY></a><br><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XiRxNkZleY">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XiRxNkZleY</a><br><br>cheers!<br>dpa<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 12/10/2017 11:32 AM, Doug Paradis wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>David, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> From watching actual robots run the stain elements, I know that it very possible for the robot to follow the outside edge of the stain and recover the line on the opposite side (my robot did this for one). Following this path the robot would be considered not following the line. Again after watching multiple robots navigate the S curves, it is easy to see if the robot is following the line (I.e., swaying with the S curve) versus just cutting across the center line (i.e., not following the line). I agree that bigger robots, those with wheel bases larger than the maximum radius of curve used in the course (i.e., 6 inches), might not be as responsive as the smaller robots. However, I still believe that you can tell when they are not following the line.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> BTW, did you see Ron's robot demo on Saturday? His robot was doing pretty well. I think the course he was running had a S curve which he handled without issue. The practice course didn't have any stains, if I recall right.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Doug P,<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 10:49 AM, David Anderson <<a href="mailto:davida@smu.edu" target="_blank">davida@smu.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks Doug,<br><br>I'm not sure I follow your examples (pun intended!). <br><br>For the segmented S curves, the difference between following the arc and following straight line approximations of that arc are pretty small, and likely to be indistinguishable from Ron's robot's path, for example. Similarly, each of the stains on the published "challenge" course is on a straight line segment between the entry point and exit point, so the paths would be identical in both cases.<br><br>For a robot with a base the size of the tiles, I'm not sure there would be any difference at all, unless the rules require that the "exact center" of the robot must remain on the line, in which case I don't see how either Carl's approach or Ron's would qualify.<br><br>This is just an intellectual exercise, I'm not planning on fielding such a 'bot.<br><br>cheers!<br>dpa <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 12/10/2017 10:06 AM, Doug Paradis wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>David, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> Going from entry point to exit point is not considered enough. You have to follow the line. For example, the segmented S curves, the robot needs to follow the curve and make an S type movement. Another example is the stain elements, the robot needs to follow the line across the stain not follow the outside edge of the stain. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Doug P.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 1:11 AM, David Anderson <<a href="mailto:davida@smu.edu">davida@smu.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Great meeting today. <br><br>Doug, I have a question based on Ron and Carl's presentations, perhaps it has already been answered, to wit:<br><br>As I understand, the line following course consists of an assembly of square tiles, each of which has an entry and exit point.<br><br>Is it sufficient for the robot to just identify the entry and exit points, and drive directly from one to the other?<br><br>That is, it would not follow the line per se, though with sufficiently large robot the differences would probably be pretty negligible, but it would follow the course.<br> <br>thanks,<br>dpa <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 12/09/2017 08:18 AM, Doug Paradis wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>John, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> Currently, the intersecting lines are always straight and all intersections are 90 degrees. Curves lines at an intersection would be a possible addition to further challenge courses (interesting idea). The link to the course layout is at <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.dprg.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/DPRG-Roborama-2011b-Challenge-Level-LF-Course.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.dprg.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/DPRG-Roborama-2011b-Challenge-Level-LF-Course.pdf </a> If you have any additional questions, let me know. I would love to see your work on the tests that you are developing.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Doug P.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 12:36 AM, John Swindle <<a href="mailto:swindle@compuserve.com">swindle@compuserve.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Doug, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I'd say the crossing in your drawing was about either 30 degrees or 150 degrees, and since it could come in on either side, I'd have to look for both. I am not asking that the rules state which side the angle is measured from. My issue is that I am developing a two-step test that covers all the conditions in the Challenge, but in the steps I need to include something that rejects the intersections. I am OK with rejecting any line that is 70 degrees to 110 degrees on either side. If the intersecting line is straight, the test is a bit more robust. If each side is 70 to 110 degrees (a bent intersecting line), my two-step test might fail.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Doing it "that's just wrong" way,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>John Swindle<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Doug Paradis <<a href="mailto:paradug@gmail.com">paradug@gmail.com</a>><br>To: John Swindle <<a href="mailto:swindle@compuserve.com">swindle@compuserve.com</a>><br>Cc: DPRG <<a href="mailto:dprglist@lists.dprg.org">dprglist@lists.dprg.org</a>><br>Sent: Fri, Dec 8, 2017 11:52 pm<br>Subject: Re: LF intersection angle rule<o:p></o:p></span></p><div id="m_-1585671555693740696m_-5699930273498463671m_-2867064402782409486AOLMsgPart_2_81c7d011-0908-4c74-95cc-d249b881afbf"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>John, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> In the challenge course, all the intersections are 90 degrees. The rule was written to allow crossing variations in the future. I'm thinking that 70-90 degrees would represent the smallest angle of the intersection. I not sure that is right, just the way I would interpret the angle. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>if you saw an intersection that was like this:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> | /<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> | /<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> /<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> / |<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> / |<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> / |<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What angle would you say the intersection was? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Doug P.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 9:03 PM, John Swindle <<a href="mailto:swindle@compuserve.com">swindle@compuserve.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Doug,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The Line Following Challenge rules say "Intersections may cross with angles of 70 - 90 degrees." Doesn't that really mean 70 to 110 degrees? Is the intersecting line straight, or can it bend at the intersection?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>John Swindle<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>DPRGlist mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:DPRGlist@lists.dprg.org" target="_blank">DPRGlist@lists.dprg.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.dprg.org/listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org" target="_blank">http://lists.dprg.org/listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________ DPRGlist mailing list <a href="mailto:DPRGlist@lists.dprg.org" target="_blank">DPRGlist@lists.dprg.org</a> <a href="http://lists.dprg.org/listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org" target="_blank">http://lists.dprg.org/listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>DPRGlist mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:DPRGlist@lists.dprg.org" target="_blank">DPRGlist@lists.dprg.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.dprg.org/listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org" target="_blank">http://lists.dprg.org/listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________ DPRGlist mailing list <a href="mailto:DPRGlist@lists.dprg.org">DPRGlist@lists.dprg.org</a> <a href="http://lists.dprg.org/listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org" target="_blank">http://lists.dprg.org/listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>