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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72" style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Wow! Lots of excellent suggestions! I think I owe it to you guys to summarize them, in no particular order:</p><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Use garage instead</li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Use basement instead</li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Use foam tiles and then create lines on top</li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Use post-it notes because they have a special adhesive</li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Print the course on a banner</li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Use Gaffers tape</li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Use waypoints if reliable odometry is available</li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Use low-tack painters tape</li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I realize I’m going to have to prioritize between the following 3 objectives, and I have decided to prioritize in the order listed</p><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'>Don’t’ damage floors</li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'>Convenience</li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'>Meet all my requirements (e.g. ability to leave the lines on the floor for a few weeks)</li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I’m willing to give on #3 a little. I think I’m OK with leaving the lines for only 2-3 days instead of 2-3 weeks. Maybe its not a big deal to re-create the lines 2 weeks later and maybe its OK that the 2<sup>nd</sup> set of lines won’t be an exact match with the initial set.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>So plan A right now is to find the right low-tack tape, test in an inconspicuous area if its safe to leave it on for 4-5 days and if so, leave the actual lines on for no more than 2-3 days (i.e. leave some margin…). What I like about the tape solution is that it can be used in many different rooms of the house if I want to and it doesn’t’ get in the way of other people using the space.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The problem I’m running into with the tape that I have obtained so far is that my wood floor is about 50% reflective, so I’m already loosing some contrast between line (beige) and no-line. But its manageable, i.e. the sensors do clearly distinguish between line and no line. What’s worse is that the pattern of the floor changes and this results in a range of reflectivity from the floor and thus the line sensors are not picking up a crisp edge. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>So my robot behaves as if the line is wavy – when it actually is 100% straight. I.e. I’m getting small oscillations which I don’t think are coming from my control logic. My logic contains only modest amount of proportionally gain – no I and no D.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I guess plan B would be to create the lines on top of some TBD substrate</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Chris</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:dprglist@lists.dprg.org">Patrick R. Michaud via DPRGlist</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, January 17, 2021 11:24 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:murray18@altheim.com">Murray Altheim</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:dprglist@lists.dprg.org">dprglist@lists.dprg.org</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Dprglist] Creating a line following course with tape on woodfloor - safe for the floor?</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>FWIW, my robotics team purchased a set of these foam tiles to use in their "pit area" at the World Championship in 2019:</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0752RB9X8</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>$86 for 48 sq-ft (12 tiles), or about $7 per tile.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>We got the "light bamboo" color. It improved the look of our pit area considerably, plus after 2-3 days of standing/walking on hard concrete floors it was really nice to have a cushion-y area to stand on. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The underside is just the foam -- no printing -- so would likely work well for a robotics course. There are 3/8" and 1/2" thickness tiles available also, which are considerably less heavy and less bulky but don't stand up to heavy traffic as well. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>More importantly for our case, we were able to get them with Prime shipping (free!) in time for the event. We had looked for local sources of these -- there's even an outlet of sorts near Frisco that I visited, but they couldn't get them to us any faster/cheaper than Amazon.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Pm</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 10:36:27AM +1300, Murray Altheim via DPRGlist wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>> On 16/01/21 9:10 am, Patrick R. Michaud via DPRGlist wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>> > [...] So to echo Karim, I always use gaffers tape in these floor-taping</p><p class=MsoNormal>> > situations, but it's not a perfect solution. I'd be reluctant to tape</p><p class=MsoNormal>> > my hardwood floor directly, but I also have other options (foam tiles</p><p class=MsoNormal>> > etc) that I can use to create a robot playing surface.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> An expensive fix to a damaged wood floor due to tape seems like an</p><p class=MsoNormal>> avoidable situation.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> On the subject of foam tiles, I just checked our local hardware store and</p><p class=MsoNormal>> they sell black, interlocking 24" square foam tiles for about NZ$9/US$6</p><p class=MsoNormal>> per square meter. It looks like KMart sells a four-pack of them in four</p><p class=MsoNormal>> colors for $12, a four pack of the black ones for $11. You pay extra for</p><p class=MsoNormal>> color.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> In the US, where everything is more available, I checked foamtiles.com</p><p class=MsoNormal>> (flooring geeks!) in Meza, AZ, and they sell tiles with rubber tops,</p><p class=MsoNormal>> carpet tops, wood patterns, and martial arts mats (e.g., 2x2' US$7.56,</p><p class=MsoNormal>> 3'x3' US17 per tile). Male or female beveled edge, beveled corners, lots</p><p class=MsoNormal>> of options. It looks like the low end of their line of interlocking tiles</p><p class=MsoNormal>> runs about US$1.20/sq. ft, e./g.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://www.foamtiles.com/interlocking-tile/foam/12-eco-soft-tile.html</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> They're don't ship outside of the US so I'd have to find a different</p><p class=MsoNormal>> supplier, but it seems these foam tiles are not hard to source.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> So maybe the easiest solution is to use these interlocking foam tiles.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> They'd provide good traction and could be taken apart and stored when not</p><p class=MsoNormal>> in use. White tape on black tile would do fine. Or black tape on pink. It</p><p class=MsoNormal>> would even be possible to print out the DPRG line following course, spray</p><p class=MsoNormal>> glue it to a set of tiles, then laboriously cut the zig zags with an xacto</p><p class=MsoNormal>> knife. But I'm not suggesting anyone tackle that -- it seems a particular</p><p class=MsoNormal>> sort of torture. But there's a solution to that too, though I have no idea</p><p class=MsoNormal>> what it'd cost: custom mats from SoftTiles.com:</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://softtiles.com/pages/corporate-projects</p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://i.shgcdn.com/23d74f3e-4e97-4830-a95a-c01c83aefcc6/-/format/auto/-/preview/3000x3000/-/quality/lighter/</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> [Legal Notice: I hold no fiduciary interest in foamtiles.com or any other</p><p class=MsoNormal>> foam tile wholesale or retail establishment.]</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> I might see if they sell these at the local KMart here in NZ. Two four</p><p class=MsoNormal>> packs would be the size of a sheet of plywood and cost about $22.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Nice solution.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Cheers,</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Murray</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> ...........................................................................</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Murray Altheim <murray18 at altheim dot com> = = ===</p><p class=MsoNormal>> http://www.altheim.com/murray/ === ===</p><p class=MsoNormal>> = = ===</p><p class=MsoNormal>> In the evening</p><p class=MsoNormal>> The rice leaves in the garden</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Rustle in the autumn wind</p><p class=MsoNormal>> That blows through my reed hut.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> -- Minamoto no Tsunenobu</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> _______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal>> DPRGlist mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal>> DPRGlist@lists.dprg.org</p><p class=MsoNormal>> http://lists.dprg.org/listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org</p><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal>DPRGlist mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal>DPRGlist@lists.dprg.org</p><p class=MsoNormal>http://lists.dprg.org/listinfo.cgi/dprglist-dprg.org</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>