Thank you, Doug. I understand the rules much better now.<br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Doug Paradis <paradug@gmail.com><br>To: John Swindle <swindle@compuserve.com><br>Cc: DPRG <dprglist@lists.dprg.org><br>Sent: Mon, Jan 28, 2019 09:29 AM<br>Subject: Re: Four Corners clarifications<br><br><br><div id="yiv1282027529"><div><div dir="ltr"><p class="yiv1282027529MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">John,</span></p><p class="yiv1282027529MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"> The
Four Corners rule set states: "The robot must travel along the perimeter
of the course and return to the spot where it started.". My interpretation
of this statement is that the robot must stay outside of the rectangle defined
by the corner marks. This might need to be clarified specifically in the
rules. </span></p><p class="yiv1282027529MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"> </span></p><p class="yiv1282027529MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">It is okay for a robot
to train to recognize the corner markers/cones. The rule set states:
"The competitor may also use the corner marks/cones as landmarks during
the run. <b>Note:</b> There is no guarantee what will constitute a
corner marker at the time of the contest.". Using the corner markers to
guide final robot placement has been done before successfully by using a vision
system with blob detection. </span></p><p class="yiv1282027529MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"> </span></p><p class="yiv1282027529MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">The difficulty is
there is no foreknowledge of what the corner mark will be in competition. If
the corner marker is a small cone, as it often is, it should be easy to use the
markers to stay outside the perimeter and to use them to guide the robot's
final location. If the markers are blue painter marks on the floor, which I
have also seen, the problem is much more difficult. Imaging of the floor to
find the start location marker that the judge places at the start of the run is
prohibited.</span></p><p class="yiv1282027529MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"> </span></p><p class="yiv1282027529MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">DPRG wants competitors
to be successful and use as many different methods as possible to solve contest
problems. If a contestant asked for the corners to be marked with cones instead
of tape on the floor, I think the judges would accommodate. The reason that the
markers are not more specifically defined is to allow people setting up the
competition as much flexibility as possible. Blue painter marks on the floor
would be perfectly acceptable if all robots are using dead reckoning. </span></p><p class="yiv1282027529MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"> </span></p><p class="yiv1282027529MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">It would really be
neat to see an echolocator mounted completely on the robot. The rules do not
allow beacons.</span></p><p class="yiv1282027529MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"> </span></p><p class="yiv1282027529MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">Regards,</span></p><p class="yiv1282027529MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">Doug P.</span></p><p class="yiv1282027529MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">
</p><p class="yiv1282027529MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p></div><br clear="none"><div class="yiv1282027529yqt0863161611" id="yiv1282027529yqt70240"><div class="yiv1282027529gmail_quote"><div class="yiv1282027529gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 1:36 AM John Swindle <<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:swindle@compuserve.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:swindle@compuserve.com">swindle@compuserve.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="yiv1282027529gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"><font color="black" size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
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<div><span style="font-size:13.3333px;">Doug,</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:13.3333px;">Four Corners questions:</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:13.3333px;">Before a run, is it OK to measure the distance between the cones/markers and program that into the robot?</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:13.3333px;">Before a run, may a competitor train his or her robot to recognize a cone/marker? I assume that's a necessary step (unless the robot is dead-reckoning the course), but maybe I'm missing something.</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:13.3333px;">The robot has to stay in the "perimeter," outside the square, right? In Square Dance, it was OK to drive into the square so long as the robot did not cut off a corner.</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:13.3333px;">Turning the localizer into an echolocator is not as easy as I thought it would be. I should try it on Four Square to prove the low-frequency sonar mapping and the high-frequency sonar targeting.</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:13.3333px;">Thanks!</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:13.3333px;">John Swindle</span></div>
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