<div dir="ltr">David,<div> From watching actual robots run the stain elements, I know that it very possible for the robot to follow the outside edge of the stain and recover the line on the opposite side (my robot did this for one). Following this path the robot would be considered not following the line. Again after watching multiple robots navigate the S curves, it is easy to see if the robot is following the line (I.e., swaying with the S curve) versus just cutting across the center line (i.e., not following the line). I agree that bigger robots, those with wheel bases larger than the maximum radius of curve used in the course (i.e., 6 inches), might not be as responsive as the smaller robots. However, I still believe that you can tell when they are not following the line.</div><div><br></div><div> BTW, did you see Ron's robot demo on Saturday? His robot was doing pretty well. I think the course he was running had a S curve which he handled without issue. The practice course didn't have any stains, if I recall right.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Doug P,</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 10:49 AM, David Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:davida@smu.edu" target="_blank">davida@smu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Thanks Doug,<br>
<br>
I'm not sure I follow your examples (pun intended!). <br>
<br>
For the segmented S curves, the difference between following the arc
and following straight line approximations of that arc are pretty
small, and likely to be indistinguishable from Ron's robot's path,
for example. Similarly, each of the stains on the published
"challenge" course is on a straight line segment between the entry
point and exit point, so the paths would be identical in both cases.<br>
<br>
For a robot with a base the size of the tiles, I'm not sure there
would be any difference at all, unless the rules require that the
"exact center" of the robot must remain on the line, in which case I
don't see how either Carl's approach or Ron's would qualify.<br>
<br>
This is just an intellectual exercise, I'm not planning on fielding
such a 'bot.<br>
<br>
cheers!<br>
dpa<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="m_-1585671555693740696moz-cite-prefix">On 12/10/2017 10:06 AM, Doug Paradis
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">David,
<div> Going from entry point to exit point is not
considered enough. You have to follow the line. For example,
the segmented S curves, the robot needs to follow the curve
and make an S type movement. Another example is the stain
elements, the robot needs to follow the line across the stain
not follow the outside edge of the stain. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Doug P.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 1:11 AM, David
Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:davida@smu.edu" target="_blank">davida@smu.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Great meeting today.
<br>
<br>
Doug, I have a question based on Ron and Carl's
presentations, perhaps it has already been answered, to
wit:<br>
<br>
As I understand, the line following course consists of an
assembly of square tiles, each of which has an entry and
exit point.<br>
<br>
Is it sufficient for the robot to just identify the entry
and exit points, and drive directly from one to the other?<br>
<br>
That is, it would not follow the line per se, though with
sufficiently large robot the differences would probably be
pretty negligible, but it would follow the course.<br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
dpa
<div>
<div class="m_-1585671555693740696h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="m_-1585671555693740696m_-5699930273498463671moz-cite-prefix">On
12/09/2017 08:18 AM, Doug Paradis wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="m_-1585671555693740696h5">
<div dir="ltr">John,
<div> Currently, the intersecting lines are
always straight and all intersections are 90
degrees. Curves lines at an intersection would
be a possible addition to further challenge
courses (interesting idea). The link to the
course layout is at </div>
<div><a href="https://www.dprg.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/DPRG-Roborama-2011b-Challenge-Level-LF-Course.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.dprg.org/wp-conten<wbr>t/uploads/2017/11/DPRG-Roboram<wbr>a-2011b-Challenge-Level-LF-<wbr>Course.pdf </a>
If you have any additional questions, let me
know. I would love to see your work on the tests
that you are developing.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Doug P.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at
12:36 AM, John Swindle <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:swindle@compuserve.com" target="_blank"></a><a class="m_-1585671555693740696moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:swindle@compuserve.com" target="_blank">swindle@compuserve.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font face="Arial,
Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="black">Doug,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd say the crossing in your drawing
was about either 30 degrees or 150
degrees, and since it could come in on
either side, I'd have to look for both. I
am not asking that the rules state which
side the angle is measured from. My issue
is that I am developing a two-step test
that covers all the conditions in the
Challenge, but in the steps I need to
include something that rejects the
intersections. I am OK with rejecting any
line that is 70 degrees to 110 degrees on
either side. If the intersecting line is
straight, the test is a bit more robust.
If each side is 70 to 110 degrees (a bent
intersecting line), my two-step test might
fail.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Doing it "that's just wrong" way,</div>
<div>John Swindle</div>
<div>
<div class="m_-1585671555693740696m_-5699930273498463671h5">
<div><br>
<br>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Doug Paradis <<a href="mailto:paradug@gmail.com" target="_blank"></a><a class="m_-1585671555693740696moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paradug@gmail.com" target="_blank">paradug@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: John Swindle <<a href="mailto:swindle@compuserve.com" target="_blank"></a><a class="m_-1585671555693740696moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:swindle@compuserve.com" target="_blank">swindle@compuserve.com</a>><br>
Cc: DPRG <<a href="mailto:dprglist@lists.dprg.org" target="_blank"></a><a class="m_-1585671555693740696moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dprglist@lists.dprg.org" target="_blank">dprglist@lists.dprg.org</a>><br>
Sent: Fri, Dec 8, 2017 11:52 pm<br>
Subject: Re: LF intersection angle
rule<br>
<br>
<div id="m_-1585671555693740696m_-5699930273498463671m_-2867064402782409486AOLMsgPart_2_81c7d011-0908-4c74-95cc-d249b881afbf">
<div class="m_-1585671555693740696m_-5699930273498463671m_-2867064402782409486aolReplacedBody">
<div dir="ltr">John,
<div> In the challenge
course, all the
intersections are 90
degrees. The rule was
written to allow crossing
variations in the future.
I'm thinking that 70-90
degrees would represent the
smallest angle of the
intersection. I not sure
that is right, just the way
I would interpret the
angle. </div>
<div>if you saw an
intersection that was like
this:</div>
<div> | /</div>
<div> | /</div>
<div> /</div>
<div> / |</div>
<div> / |</div>
<div> / |</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What angle would you say
the intersection was? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Doug P.</div>
</div>
<div class="m_-1585671555693740696m_-5699930273498463671m_-2867064402782409486aolmail_gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="m_-1585671555693740696m_-5699930273498463671m_-2867064402782409486aolmail_gmail_quote">On
Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 9:03 PM,
John Swindle <span dir="ltr"><<a class="m_-1585671555693740696m_-5699930273498463671moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:swindle@compuserve.com" target="_blank"></a><a class="m_-1585671555693740696moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:swindle@compuserve.com" target="_blank">swindle@compuserve.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="m_-1585671555693740696m_-5699930273498463671m_-2867064402782409486aolmail_gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font face="Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif" size="2" color="black">
<div>
<div>Doug,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The Line
Following Challenge
rules say
"Intersections may
cross with angles of
70 - 90 degrees."
Doesn't that really
mean 70 to 110
degrees? Is the
intersecting line
straight, or can it
bend at the
intersection?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>John Swindle</div>
<div> </div>
<div style="color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt"><br>
</div>
</div>
</font></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
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