[Dprglist] AI in natural language, self-driving cars, etc.

[David P. Anderson]

Ed,

I guess we'll just have to disagree (not for the first time!) on the 
definition of "mastery."

I agree that learning a foreign language is difficult as an adult.   In 
the middle ages the common wisdom was that learning to read and write 
were so difficult that ONLY an adult could accomplish it.  Turns out 
they were wrong, and the difficulty was BECAUSE they were trying to 
learn it as adults.   Same thing with learning a foreign language as an 
adult.

In one of my college psych courses we learned that humans learn the 
concept of symbolism, this stands for that, somewhere between 2 and 3 
years old.  Language is an extension of that ability to symbolize.  I 
believe the author was observing the lack of that mechanism in current AIs.

So ultimately this may be a glass-half-empty-half-full sort of thing.   
Some might think language flawed because of a lack of perfect 
communication.  Other's might be blown away that we can do it at all.   
I tend to fall into the latter group.  Seems like you are perhaps in the 
former.

cheers!

dpa


On 10/16/22 5:00 PM, ed at okerson.com wrote:
> [EXTERNAL SENDER]
>
> Hey David,
>
> Do most of us really ever master it? As my father always says, 
> "English is the only foreign language I know". Having lived in other 
> countries, namely Japan and Finland, I can tell you mastering another 
> language is anything but easy. As no human language is the natural 
> language of silicon based AI, I can imagine the difficulty it has. I 
> still assert that most humans have not really "mastered" any language. 
> They may have learned enough to get by, but that is far from mastery.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
> On 2022-10-16 16:31, David P. Anderson wrote:
>> Hey Ed!
>>
>> Why do you say language is hard for meat based intelligence? Most of
>> us master it by 4 or 5.   On our own!
>>
>> Almost like it's "built into" the system.   (see Chomsky, Noam).
>>
>> cheers!
>>
>> dpa
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/16/22 4:14 PM, ed at okerson.com wrote:
>>> [EXTERNAL SENDER]
>>>
>>> Language is difficult for Meat based Intelligence, why wouldn't it 
>>> be hard for Silicon based Intelligence?
>>>
>>> From the article "In spite of these AI systems being dumb, as you 
>>> put it, people are often fooled into thinking that they’re smart."
>>>
>>> Yet another similarity to Meat based "Intelligence"? Hmmm?
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> On 2022-10-16 16:02, David P. Anderson via DPRGlist wrote:
>>>> Interesting take:
>>>>
>>>> https://undark.org/2022/10/07/interview-why-mastering-language-is-so-difficult-for-ai/ 
>>>> dpa
>>>>
>>>>
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